Pretty much thought I answered that about walking away.
I’ve worked around way more men in an man’s field than I have women when I was working.
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[quote=“chelsea530, post:89, topic:66456, full:true”]
Can’t women just walk away?
[/quote] (this is g’s wife) why don’t black people just walk away if a staff member makes a joke about ‘darkies’ heh heh heh
because you call people on their stuff, because ‘just a joke’ isn’t - it’s a little jab at I have power and you don’t - no matter how good at your job you are. Do you think someone who makes the occasional racist comment will be fair in their assessment of workers when it comes to promotion?
I’ve walked away, I’ve laughed it off - but being the agreeable hard worker might not get you as far as the BS artist with management’s ear. But perhaps you were being sarcastic C - you’re usually quite sensible - if so, not ranting on you
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It’s hard enough for a man to tell them to shut it, and I understand there’s a quantum leap necessary for a woman to tell them to do so. But standing up is the only effective way to establish respect and maintain focus.
That reminds me of a story…I once was involved in three-way negotiations between the public owner, architect and contractor for a deeply troubled and ill-advised project. The contractor, an crusty old Western cowboy, would stand up from his chair whenever he felt offended by some proposition being hammered out among the parties. He literally could not settle for it. We all would stop and restate the proposal until he was able to sit down and re-engage.
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Darling, I didn’t mean you.
I heard the worst story tonight about a friend in Ohio whose husband divorced her and left her to fend for the kids. Her daughter started taking drugs and got pregnant. She cleaned up, had the baby, and moved into her mom’s two-bedroom condo with the baby. Ex-husband wanted no part of it.
One morning, she found her daughter and a girl friend dead in her bedroom of an overdose after she broke down the door. The police saw that she had taken money out at an ATM to get the heroin.
I have nothing but contempt for the weaker sex who band together to appear strong: guess who?
squirreltown, you are fomenting worker dissatisfaction. this will show up in your performance review
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O my god that’s terrible. I am so terribly sorry for your friend. It’s entirely too common, too.
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Here’s the way it penned me in - I was the only woman lawyer in the two small law firms I worked in. Eventually I did get isolated and I began to have lunch with the secretaries. And then I got in trouble for doing that.
Yeah. Fine fucking tightrope it could be.
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We all lived in yuppyville, ohio.
There are more stories where that came from, believe me.
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Understood. But I’m going to need to get those TPS reports done. So if you could just come in this weekend, that would be…great.
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Oh, the usual. Promote incompetent men to upper management and give women the job to do twice as well for three-quarters the pay. /s
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BTW, the woman in this case is going to turn the child over to a couple at church (which she joined after the divorce) who want it, because she has to work and can’t raise it. As I said, the ex-husband won’t help. He’s remarried and has another family. The father of the baby is in jail - drugs. His mother is also a drug-user.
I can’t imagine the pain she has suffered.
When we talk about sexual harassment, can we please keep some perspective about the other trauma women suffer?
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The new minority: … those who haven’t been accused of sexual harassment. (not defending anyone y’understand)
See? You’re the politically savvy one.
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In the 90s, an old friend from the midwest was visiting when I was in grad school (in your area). This was not long after the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings. He asked, seriously, what crossed the line (and what was the big deal?).
He worked in emergency medicine and said that in high crisis situations, sometimes off color humor was used to blunt the harsh reality of the life and death situation they were dealing with (in order to not freak out - and keep working through the crisis). He honestly didn’t get it - per conversations that were heavy in sexual innuendo (in the ‘some women are just too sensitive and should just be one of the guys’ mind set.)
On that visit we had two exchanges that decades later he said made an impact and stayed with him. One was the description of being on the recieving end of comments and such jokes in a professional setting - and how demeaning those episodes were (didn’t matter how much of a professional I was, or the quality of my work in those moments) - and translated it to the females working those same ER scenes - did it really make sense to send the message to them that they were not professionals - just tits and ass - when their contributions to the medical crisis were as important as the male medical professionals?
Only more than a decade later did I learn, from him, that the conversation had shifted his thinking - and behavior.
Oh and the other thing… When he was visiting I had a boat load of books (for research) I was checking out of 3 libraries on campus - and I asked him to help me transport all of those books to my housing unit. He asked what I was going to do with all of those books. Snarkily I responded “read them”. Apparently that conversation came back to him when he later pursued a doctoral program and realized - yes - a ton of reading was part of the gig.
One never knows when I conversation in the moment - will be more to the conversant than a single conversation.
Long way of stating that these conversations - at least in some places, have been going on for decades. Some men heard them, others shrugged them off. I am glad for the current conversations and hope that they reach many more folks than those that occurred 25 years ago.
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you got in trouble for having lunch with the secretaries?
A) many are great people with funny stories
B) they know everything and the savvy person knows and respects that
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I watch a lot of MSNBC. I think it is one of best cable news channels on air. That said, Matthews is becoming less relevant to politics all the time. He is being eased out by younger and smarter talent on the air. And, it isn’t all a chronological age issue here either. He and O’Donnell are older, as are some of their pundits, but Matthews just isn’t that sharp anymore. As far as this issue, I am near his age and an old feminist, but there is a difference between boorish behavior and sexual harassment or assault used a power wedge. Women need to stand up and hold their ground now. Pick their battles, if they want to see a sea change in male behavior. Get rid of the Charlie Rose’s and the Matt Lauer’s, but learn to handle the boorish behavior with less fanfare. Women don’t need to be viewed as whiny or the real cases against the real violators will be diminished. There are few women my age that could not say “me too” a half a dozen times. We learned how to handle a lot of these creeps in the workplace on our own.
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Well what do you know! One of the four leaders of the Bill Clinton Zipper Hunt (along with Michael Kelly, Tim Russert and Maureen Dowd) got caught doing the same thing…
I know I am late to the thread, but I need to say this: I can’t stand Chris Matthews. (I also really, really dislike Chuck Todd.) I turn off the television or my Sirius XM radio whenever either one comes on. On Tuesday evening I had an hour drive in front of me and I wanted to hear about the Alabama race. Sadly for me, it was the Chris Matthews Hour. I spent the whole drive screaming “SHUT UP!” at him. He is a bully. I am not surprised that his attitude toward women might be getting him in trouble. His personality would drive me away. Next time you see his program watch how he interrupts and talks over his female guests, but not his male ones. However, if letting Tweety yammer on in prime time is the price we have to pay in order to keep all the younger talking heads on MSNBC - the ones Andy Lack, in his programming genius wanted to fire - I guess I will put up with him. Here’s my message: Retire already Chris!
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sorry I took the time out to watch Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai. My favorite Jim Jarmusch film with the incredible soundtrack by the RZA. God I love that movie.
Yes because I was told I was a professional and I shouldn’t hang out with the support staff.
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